Fuel Issues Blues..

[Foose04]

Well i'm still working on this issue. Started with the walbro 400's dying because of e85. Next I have 450's rated for e85, but still well short on fuel compared to what I used to have on my setup.

I ordered a Autometer 0-100 psi sensor to log pressure and new fuel filter.

The fuel filer was (4+ years old) :oops:, would this be enough to cause lean out up top? It's a Jegs 5" filter, rater at 1000HP for alcohol. 100 Micron.

Next up is remove the KB boost a pump to see if it's not feeding these 450 properly. Thoughts?

I tried base FP from 55psi to 70psi, all seems bring the same results, 100 duty cycle and lean she goes above 5k.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s192/blackhawkawd91/file_zps743844a9.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s192/blackhawkawd91/file_zps79756ae4.jpg

[WTFWSAT]

Could the injectors be dirty? Fwiw i run a 100mic filter pre pump and a 10mic post. Your filter does look a little dirty, it could be the issue.

[DolSVT00]

Find trash can, throw boost a shit in it.

Its astounding how many engine's that garbage has hurt. Yet people still buy them.

I cant say enough how much I hate those things.

[ElecTech]

Rob,

Are you running a hotwire kit?

[Qwik_Sn95]

Could the injectors be dirty? Fwiw i run a 100mic filter pre pump and a 10mic post. Your filter does look a little dirty, it could be the issue.

Same on my setup. If your just running a 100 after the pumps its possible you have trash in the injectors. I'd run a 10 micron after the pumps befjr the rails. Theres a thread on the bullet recently that ended up being dirty injectors after changing all kinds of stuff. Also with that much pump what's the point in the boostapump?

[Foose04]

There's really no reason for KB at this point. I tested it by hitting the Hobbs switch with air and my base fuel pressure jumps about 15 psi when it's active but I have no idea how it acts under wot.

I'll try the filter tomorrow and disconnect/straight feed the pumps of the battery. See what happens.

It is possible after more search my injectors are dirty as well. I'll try that as next but likely send them to be checked and suck up buying some 120s or 160s.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Rob,

Are you running a hotwire kit?

I'm running a 10 gauge back to them, splitting to 12s inside the tank.

[Carlrx7]

A) injectors too small
B) dropping fuel pressure

Duct tape a rental FP gauge to the windshield.

Surprised your injectors have lasted this long @ 100% duty cycle.. ID1000's flow 127# at 4 bar, get them.

-Carl

[Foose04]

Snow ball chance, any where local that can flow/clean my 80s?

Might give these guys a call tomorrow. It's only money... God bless. :barf:

http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=11

[slowgreen99]

Filters are over rated

[oldskoolstang]

I would look into getting some 120s or 160s. 80s seem to small to me with e85 at your power level.....

[spdracr0]

e85 will f up filters in a heartbeat. You got plenty of pump.

[labelblack68]

wanna sell those 80s?

[TurboWS6]

If you want to see if its the injectors

I got a set of siemens 80s out of my ride that are 8 months old and have about 500 miles on them you can swap and see the outcome, but I want them back, I am in Florence for the next few months. Ill be in the area on friday to check up on the house and sign my DD214 so we might be able to get together then. Shoot me a PM.

[djfury05]

Snow ball chance, any where local that can flow/clean my 80s?

Might give these guys a call tomorrow. It's only money... God bless. :barf:

http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=11

Lashway Motorsports in Florida can do the same stuff for $80.. I'm about to send a set in soon.. I too thought $18.50 per injector from FIC was ridiculous

[djfury05]

Also, give this link a look.. its got some good info and an excel spreadsheet to input your values etc and find what "should" work for you.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1624235-injector-flow-vs-pump-flow.html

[WTFWSAT]

I had mine cleaned and flowed for $50 i believe. If youre interested ill find the info.

[1998ta__1991rs]

I've got a brand new set of 80s at the shop if you want to swap them in to check

[BAD BOB]

bigger injector

[Foose04]

Thanks for all the help guys, i'll let you know tomorrow once the filter and sensor get installed. If it's still lean holding fuel pressure my problem is injector related. Thats the case I need add another 40 micron filter in the system to keep this from happening again.

[ElecTech]

Also with that much pump what's the point in the boostapump?

It will stabilize the voltage to the pumps. It will provide a regulated 14V even in the "off boost" mode. That can help if you have a weak alternator or overall low sytem voltage as it will work down to 10 V.



I'm running a 10 gauge back to them, splitting to 12s inside the tank.

The only reason I ask is if you are using the alternator as your source, log your system voltage in HPT and see that it is holding a steady voltage under heavy acceleration. I ran into this with my truck knowing I had enough injector and should have had enough pump and found that the alternator would drop out under hard acceleration and the voltage would drop to 10.9 V causing the pump output to drop dramaticly.

It is something to check but now I realize you are on 80's, i think that is your issue.

What rail pressure are you running?

[ElecTech]

Those pumps will deliver 100 psi capacity, but the 400lph is @ 40psi so if you start at a 50 psi base pressure, with 20 psi boost you have an effective pressure of 70 psi. More pressure to compensate for those injectors will only make the situation worse as pump flow drops as the pressure goes up.

calculated estimations put you needing about a 105 lb per hour based on the last dyno graph I saw for your truck. I think things have changed since then so i would say it's time to step up.

[RoadconeTuning]

Fix is good for clean and flowing but don't fall into their injector trap. The id units are a LOT better. Id1000 and id2000 are nice.

[Foose04]

Got the filter installed and FP sensor to log pressure. With a 55 base, FP never dropped below 70psi with 14-15 boost and airfuel still went near 13 with 110 duty. Pretty sure my Deka's are dirty/done deal.

Also I think the Id1000s/100lb are to small for an upgrade, so I called and talked to a few guys running the bosch 127s and all seem to like them. Also talked to John at FIC and feel pretty good about it, if I'm not happy, send them back for a refund. So well see, love to see what number this snail makes around 20psi. John split overnight shipping with me, so i got 48 hours to tune prior to dyno time lol.

[RoadconeTuning]

you can crank the pressure on the ID1000's up to something pretty stupid and get up to 127lbs IIRC

[LXtasy]

Should have told them you were foose04. The fastest turbo 4.8 truck in the world. They may have heard of you because you are kind of a big deal

[Foose04]

Yeah but why not buy the correct size to begin with when spending so much damn money for these bastards and have the fuel pumps work efficiently.

On another note John also wasn't big on the 100 micron filter only, so best I could find safe for ethenal is manga fuel filter with a 25-micron. Going to install it inline, post 100 filter. Hope to have it all running tomorrow after work with the boost a pump removed, less things involved maybe the better.

[RoadconeTuning]

nine hunned hoe powuh?

[Foose04]

Should have told them you were foose04. The fastest turbo 4.8 truck in the world. They may have heard of you because you are kind of a big deal

Might have helped?! :cheers I usually save that crap. Normal question when buying parts is

Them: is it for a ls1, 2, 7 or what?
Me: Umm, well it's a 4.8
Them: ( their thoughts, this f'in guy, third one this week with a dream)
Me: Just send me the damn injectors that cost 3 times what my mota's worth.

Ahh well. :bigthumb:

[Carlrx7]

ID1000's are 114.280 @ 4 bar according to the injector data. they can run up to 7 bar aka 101.5psi

[Foose04]

That's great but my walbro's don't do anything at 7 bar.

This graph was plotted using the 127 injectors with different pumps. Looks like if I want to run 20-25psi, a base pressure of 50-55 is where my injectors max flow meet my 450's max flow.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s192/blackhawkawd91/image-6_zpsb56fdd6f.jpg

[Carlrx7]

That's great but my walbro's don't do anything at 7 bar.

This graph was plotted using the 127 injectors with different pumps. Looks like if I want to run 20-25psi, a base pressure of 50-55 is where my injectors max flow meet my 450's max flow.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s192/blackhawkawd91/image-6_zpsb56fdd6f.jpg

Damn good graph, i need to find one for my setup.

[djfury05]

Damn good graph, i need to find one for my setup.

All you have to do is go to this link:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1624235-injector-flow-vs-pump-flow.html

1st post at the bottom there is a ZIP file that contains the Excel spreadsheet used to make that graph. You can plug in any information you want and it'll spit out the graph like above.

[spdracr0]

Throw that boost a pump in the damn trash, I can share a horror story with you on that thing

[Foose04]

My 293 should have fuel now, 8x1320cc. Hell of a tip on those bad boys, bet she'll like that. :razz:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s192/blackhawkawd91/file_zpsd1c7a8bc.jpg

[Carlrx7]

why did you go with the extended tip ls3 - ls7 injetors instead of the regular 1200s?

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/eb02z06/Picture4.jpg

[Foose04]

Jon said it's good stuff for cathedral port heads, better distribution/atomizing or some jazz.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/eb02z06/100_0461.jpg

Extended tip

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/eb02z06/100_0464.jpg

[Carlrx7]

I'd double check that with the TBSS manifold, or maybe your old one laying around just to be sure. Something about FAST manifolds they work good on. That looks like a Square L92 manifold. I may be wrong...

[WILLIAMJRDN]

Nice can't wait to see what it does. Carl that is a cathedral port, way too narrow to be l92.

[RoadconeTuning]

hmm, i didnt even know they had injectors like that. makes sense tho.

[1998ta__1991rs]

I'd double check that with the TBSS manifold, or maybe your old one laying around just to be sure. Something about FAST manifolds they work good on. That looks like a Square L92 manifold. I may be wrong...

thats a cathedral port Fast in the pictures