LS 441/442ci N/A Questions

[Miker]

I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Planned parts

New LS7 block
RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc)
Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight?
Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods
Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons
LS7 head gasket
Lunati High RPM Lifters
ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster)
Fast 102
Nick Williams 102
Ported LSA Oil Pump

I need opinions on Valves and Springs.
Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do.
How much injector will I need?
I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option.

Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him.

4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox.

[slowgreen99]

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

[Miker]

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

I'd like to spend less on rockers then my car is worth. :roll:

The assembled price on the Mast isn't that bad.

[Carlrx7]

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

[Miker]

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

I have all the oiling bugs worked from the front sump GTO pan. It is baffled and I run 7qts of oil. Since day one I have ran 0w-40 Mobil1. It is high zync with out any of the downfalls of racing oil. Currently it handles the heat fine; I don't have an oil cooler yet.

Car currently has a ported LSA pump in it. When I spun the lifter at 75k miles I put in high RPM lifters, a cam, patriot duals, ported the 243 heads, ARP rodbolts/headbolts. It has held together 25k miles so far spending a lot of time bouncing off the rev limiter at 7k.

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

I've wanted a big N/A build since I saw this car run at CMP.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/704394_433124656740897_1255282297_o.jpg

[Carlrx7]

I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

[Miker]

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

I like RPM; but it would be nice to have epic torque so I don't always have to rev the piss out of it. I currently always rev the piss out of it being a 4speed.

I need more power; the normal FI route would be totally wrong for what I do.

There is a crazy HSV GTO owned by Eddie Tassone (youtube it). He revs 8,000 on a 455ci LSX.

[djfury05]

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

[Miker]

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

That's what I want to hear.

What do people like crank/rod wise?

Motor stuff is not my thing so I need to hear this stuff.

While short stroke stuff is the norm for road racing stuff there are quite a bit of Camaro/Vette guys with a square setup. They normally rev to like 5,500 tho.

[DIGGLER]

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

[Miker]

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

If I purely wanted RPM that would work.

[Miker]

Lol at tags.

If bigger braked could fit you know I'd already have em. I have 1mm of clearance currently.
https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q75/s720x720/1016253_519748858078476_1453356635_n.jpg

[pontiac_boy]

100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

[bwelch]

402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain...

[GreebeanZ28]

402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80.

[schardbody]

Matt says lt1 swap will get ya done

[RoadconeTuning]

If you're stuck on the LS7 thing i'd say stock bottom end with a good piston on it. skip the fast102, I ran across a number of dyno sheets showing a stock LS7 intake making like 40tq more in the midrange and more power up top when i was looking for LS3vs102 comparisons.

If you're just wanting MOAR CUBEZ buy you an LS3 block and put some lightweight stuff in it and zing it 7500 with good lifters and lightweight rockers and all. Send Brian Tooley an email telling him what you want to do and he'll likely hook you up with a deal for a whole top end package. He'll probably steer you away from the LS3 and LS7 style heads.

-Disclaimer... I've never done any of that ish...

[04ctd]

Dee has his motor on a stand for sale.

his magnuson blower is on LS1 tech.

the Transzilla t56 is out & ready to sale

call him at 843-509-7209, he's off work today.

you can use my truck to go pick it all up.

http://www.carolinahorsepower.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14278

[bwelch]

I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car...

[DIGGLER]

I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car...

why not, its already a 4,000lb car? lol

[Miker]

why not, its already a 4,000lb car? lol

With the new seats I should be very low 3400s, maybe into the high 3,300s.

[Miker]

100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

This motor has seen abuse every weekend; it has been starved of oil; it has overheated. But it is a trooper; I want bigger now.

[Miker]

402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80.
402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain...

I ran Adam's GTO once when I just had 3.73s and weight reduction driving to Darlinton and he didn't pull me.

I've never been impressed with a 402/408.

[Miker]

I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car...

No fat chicks or iron blocks.

[ForceFed4g63]

This motor has seen abuse every weekend; it has been starved of oil; it has overheated. But it is a trouper; I want bigger now.

http://www.plantagenet.org.uk/images/music1.jpg

[DIGGLER]

With the new seats I should be very low 3400s, maybe into the high 3,300s.

is that just the car's weight, or raceweight?

[adamcs]

I ran Adam's GTO once when I just had 3.73s and weight reduction driving to Darlinton and he didn't pull me.

I've never been impressed with a 402/408.

Everybody is always excited about what they did with my old car when I was On a nitrous tune and had excessive weight in the car lol

[Miker]

is that just the car's weight, or raceweight?

Just car.

[bambooi]

Sell your car and get a c5z. Stop putting more money into it. You know you want a c5z.

[TurboWS6]

I need more power; the normal FI route would be totally wrong for what I do.


I think a blower would be ideal for bringing torque/HP up in your application, centrifugal probably best as they don't tend to run out of steam at high RPMs and there will be no lag time which matters with your type of racing as a added bonus you wont have to deal with all the extra heat under the hood from a turbo system. 7-10 psi with some ARP fastners, forged pistons and it'll make mid 550-600 to the tire any more than that and you wont be able to utilize it in the chassis.

Stroker motors and RPM don't get along. There great for momentary bursts, drag racing, street racing ect, but wont live a long life if you keep the RPM up. With a blower on your LS2 you can have stroker motor torque and the RPM you like, and it will get better fuel mileage than a big cube N/A motor. Spend the money on a good belt system so you don't have issues throwing them and it will be reliable. Run A2W with a heat exchanger and a ice box for track time and heat soak wont be a issue. JMO

Money wise expect to pay around 12K for your stroker
Blower route you can probably get done around 7K

[Carlrx7]

I've heard guys with centri's have nightmare issues with shreading belts and snapping crank snouts. That on/off snap with the extreme belt tension and load is deadly.


/**Sent from my iPhone5**/

[GreebeanZ28]

Sell your car and get a c5z. Stop putting more money into it. You know you want a c5z.

shoulda swapped birdman.

[TurboWS6]

I've heard guys with centri's have nightmare issues with shreading belts and snapping crank snouts. That on/off snap with the extreme belt tension and load is deadly.
/

I have heard this too mostly with aftermarket forged cranks, alloy is less ductile and instead of flexing they snap, Stock crank is good for 1K plus RWHP proven many times don't know why anyone would run aftermarket under 1K RWHP unless its a stroker and that's all you get. Also 7-10 psi wouldn't be that much strain, were not talking vortec YSI at 20+ psi.

Belt shredding is why I said to get the better cog system.

[TurboWS6]

I say wait a year the C6's will come down in price especially for the earlier models. Probably be able to grab one for 20K next year with the new model coming.

[RoadconeTuning]

strokers generally dont make shit for power in ls motors. spend all that money on a bottom end and end up making less power and have it wear out faster than a stock bottom end...

[Miker]

I've seen a lot of twin screw cars go boom on track. A procharger could work but you never see them used.

Next set of tires will be square 285s; and I'll have enough downforce to use some power.

[Miker]

I say wait a year the C6's will come down in price especially for the earlier models. Probably be able to grab one for 20K next year with the new model coming.

Not a c6 fan. I'd rather have a c5z. But I like my car.

[Miker]

shoulda swapped birdman.

I drove it once at an AutoX and liked it. I've also driven one prepped by Danny Popp. C5s lack the cool factor my car has.

[ForceFed4g63]

I drove it once at an AutoX and liked it. I've also driven one prepped by Danny Popp. C5s lack the cool factor my car has.

You are actually joking when you say that, correct?

[BIRDMAN]

I drove it once at an AutoX and liked it. I've also driven one prepped by Danny Popp.

It really is an all around better platform for the racing you like to do.

C5Zs lack the cool factor my car has.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

Is "cool factor" more important than handling in your particular hobby?

Regardless, it'll never be MERKOOL. :mrgreen:

[FRDnemesis]

I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Planned parts

New LS7 block
RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc)
Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight?
Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods
Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons
LS7 head gasket
Lunati High RPM Lifters
ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster)
Fast 102
Nick Williams 102
Ported LSA Oil Pump

I need opinions on Valves and Springs.
Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do.
How much injector will I need?
I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option.

Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him.

4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox.

There's a couple LS7 441's for sale right now on the vette forum, for a deal!!!

[BigdaddyDupree]

C5z>gto

[DIGGLER]

du a deramacks swop

[Miker]

There's a couple LS7 441's for sale right now on the vette forum, for a deal!!!

Links?

[FRDnemesis]

Links?


corvetteforum.com in the C6 "Parts for sale" section. There is a couple of them somewhere in the first 10 pages by now. Those sale section posts mover FAST... I'm with my daughter so I can't take the time to pinpoint them but they will be easy to find once you start looking.

jeff

[Miker]

This popped up tonight on a GTO FB page; lets see what happens. He said he wants to trade for a TVS2300 kit lolz.

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391578_10153351080195440_9886573_n.jpg

[RoadconeTuning]

hurricane intake picks up urrywhur... I still think a stroker motor would be dumb for reliabilty