turbo questions for ls1

[saclifford]

Ok so I have a bone stock 99 T/A ls1 M6 and I want to go turbo. So far from what I have seen the best set of budget heads for this would be the 317's. My question is if I was to go ahead and buy a set of these heads and a cam would it hurt the car to put them on before I get the turbo? I don't have all the money together to buy everything at one time and was going to do it in stages if I would see some gains or at least stay the same.

[Carlrx7]

almost any head and cam over stock is going to perform better. Do it!

[DIGGLER]

i think i would go ahead and get the turbo stuff on there and then change the heads later once you are ready to start upping the boost.
main reason i suggest that is because a good turbo setup is so expensive half the people who try give up and sell whatever parts they aquired before getting the car up and running.

[saclifford]

i think i would go ahead and get the turbo stuff on there and then change the heads later once you are ready to start upping the boost.
main reason i suggest that is because a good turbo setup is so expensive half the people who try give up and sell whatever parts they aquired before getting the car up and running.

I can see how that happens, I know I have the luck that as soon as I have the money something else comes up and the car gets put off. One reason I was looking at doing the head and cam swap was because I have been fighting with a overheating problem and even though my compression test was good 150-160 on all cylinders my last idea was something wrong with the heads or gaskets and it only happens when its getting hot.

I did find a full turbo kit on a site that is supposed to keep the a/c for around $2000 but im going to have to look more into the on3 turbos and how good they are

[DIGGLER]

check your fans and the radiator itself could be clogged up causing it to overheat.

[saclifford]

check your fans and the radiator itself could be clogged up causing it to overheat.

Thanks but unfortunately I have replaced everything with the cooling system including the water pump t-stat and radiator cap a few times. Flushed the system got a good mix of coolant and the fans are working plus I have a switch on them. Compression test on the system shows good but it will keep pushing water to the overflow tank and not pull it back in. From what I understand its getting air in the system but I have no idea where that could be coming from. I would much rather buy a turbo system first and upgrade other parts later but I dont want to install something like that without the cooling problem fixed. If anyone knows something else to look at please let me know.

[saclifford]

i think i would go ahead and get the turbo stuff on there and then change the heads later once you are ready to start upping the boost.
main reason i suggest that is because a good turbo setup is so expensive half the people who try give up and sell whatever parts they aquired before getting the car up and running.


I have been thinking about that and have read where stock ls1 can do well with the boost. I have a couple of questions regarding keeping it stock. With my overheating problem all I can think of was when it gets hot the head gasket leaks, but not into the oil. So if I take the heads off to change the gasket should I try and have any work done to the heads? I was also thinking about changing the head bolts to studs, is it worth having the studs since im trying to turbo the car?


I appreciate everyone for there input. I have never messed with a turbo so im trying to learn as much as I can before I start

[BigdaddyDupree]

PM pescenero on here, he ports cylinder heads and his name is Ray Meyers from moncks corner. Studs aren't a bad idea IMO. does the car actually overheat? or just push water?

[saclifford]

Thanks I will definitely get in touch with him. And the car will push the water out and eventually overheat. I hear that the temp gauge on the 99 isn't very accurate so all I can say about the temp is that it stays around 210 until it has pushed all the water out and then it shots up. It does it the worst when I have to drive to Columbia.

[Rob M]

... I hear that the temp gauge on the 99 isn't very accurate so all I can say about the temp is that it stays around 210 until it has pushed all the water out and then it shots up. It does it the worst when I have to drive to Columbia.

As I've heard from sevral sources & read, '98 cars were much more accurate, folks across the board complained so GM turned them into "dummy" gauges in the 99+ cars...kinda has always made me wonder though if this had Anything to do w/the fact that the '98 f-cars having a unique ECM/PCM "language" or programming unlike the 99-02's....I thought You got that all squared away meng??

[saclifford]

I thought I did too until the other week when I went to get my daughter. Ran fine all the way there and home except the last 2 miles from my house, temp gauge just shot up and when I got it home it was almost a gallon low on coolant

[Rob M]

I just wonder if Who ever replaced the engine knew/remembered to swap over the steam pipe from the back of the heads...I mean it could just be something as simple as that, mean Your heads on the car now just have plugs in them where that line should be....

[saclifford]

No I have the lines hooked up in the front I can only assume that they are good on the back of the block. I thought that maybe there was a leak there causing it to act up at one time but since it holds pressure I kinda ruled that out

[saclifford]

No I have the lines hooked up in the front I can only assume that they are good on the back of the block. I thought that maybe there was a leak there causing it to act up at one time but since it holds pressure I kinda ruled that out

[04ctd]

if you have the electric running at too low a temp then they will block air flow, if they are coming on while you are moving.

esp if you have a switch to manually turn on & run them while car is moving, and are using that.

this sounds like something simple that make you say DOH

[Rob M]

No I have the lines hooked up in the front I can only assume that they are good on the back of the block. I thought that maybe there was a leak there causing it to act up at one time but since it holds pressure I kinda ruled that out

The lines in the front are the TB coolant lines, preventing the TB from freezing over and sticking shut (ie Up noff/extreme cold climates)

The steam line runs from the passenger head to the driver head

[saclifford]

if you have the electric running at too low a temp then they will block air flow, if they are coming on while you are moving.

esp if you have a switch to manually turn on & run them while car is moving, and are using that.

this sounds like something simple that make you say DOH

I have a feeling that when I do find the problem im going to feel stupid but I wont ever forget it though either.

as for the fans I did not know that running the fans while driving would block air flow. I did put them on a switch in line so the computer can still turn them on. the only reason I tried the switch was to see if that was a problem but it didn't fix it either. I was thinking about having someone tune the car and adjust the fan cut on/off since I have the 160 t-stat.

[saclifford]

The lines in the front are the TB coolant lines, preventing the TB from freezing over and sticking shut (ie Up noff/extreme cold climates)

The steam line runs from the passenger head to the driver head

the steam line from the passenger to driver side head is hooked up, but didn't it also have a line that went under the intake to the rear of the block too?

the line that went to the tb has been taken off by someone else before I got the car. Being in the south I never saw a reason to put it back on.

[98Camarod]

If you have a ls6 intake, then the rears may be blocked off.

I can change the fan settings for you, but doubt that's the problem if it's fine while moving. The fans are normally off when you are moving at highway speeds. Do you have the deflector installed in front? When your moving do the temps come down?

I remember when I first got my car, there was a rubber cap installed on the bottom of the radiator that busted when I was driving down the road. I didn't know anything about it. Maybe you have one and it's slowly leaking coolant?

[Rob M]

the steam line from the passenger to driver side head is hooked up, but didn't it also have a line that went under the intake to the rear of the block too?

the line that went to the tb has been taken off by someone else before I got the car. Being in the south I never saw a reason to put it back on.


Ok...no, the front 2 are there to basically keep the TB warm. The rears are their own "circuit"... That's right I remember seeing that now when I first saw the car when Brandon bought it...

[saclifford]

If you have a ls6 intake, then the rears may be blocked off.

I can change the fan settings for you, but doubt that's the problem if it's fine while moving. The fans are normally off when you are moving at highway speeds. Do you have the deflector installed in front? When your moving do the temps come down?

I remember when I first got my car, there was a rubber cap installed on the bottom of the radiator that busted when I was driving down the road. I didn't know anything about it. Maybe you have one and it's slowly leaking coolant?

when I replaced my radiator I also saw a rubber cap on the bottom and I tried to find out what that was used for but haven't been able to find anything. Do you know what is was used for? I just thought it was odd to just have it plugged off like that

[schardbody]

Is it on the passenger side mid ways up? That's where the low coolant sensor goes if so. Not sure if all years had them.

You still haven't answered if it cools off while moving.

Have you done a block test yet?

[saclifford]

Is it on the passenger side mid ways up? That's where the low coolant sensor goes if so. Not sure if all years had them.

You still haven't answered if it cools off while moving.

Have you done a block test yet?

no its on the bottom driver side, with the drain plug on the pass side.

as far as cooling when its moving. The car stays at 210 or so until most of the water is gone then the temp will shot up and the only thing that helps it then is to let it cool down and add more water.

So far everything I have done to the car is as follows

1) Block test= pass
2) compression test on cylinders= 150-160
3) new radiator
4) water pump has been replaced twice
5) t-stat has been replaced twice 160*
6) all hoses have been replaced
7) new overflow tank
8)new temp sending unit
9)switch on fans and replaced relays (fans will come on with a/c and for a
minute or so when the gauge is reading a little of 210)
10) flushed the system filled back with a 50/50 mix
11) new radiator cap (tried a pressure relief and standard style 18# cap)

I have also made sure that anytime work has been done to the system I would bleed it to make sure the air is out of the system. I would let the car run and wait for the t-stat to open and top it back off.

If there is anything someone thinks I have missed or may have done wrong let me know. This is kicking my butt and starting to be expensive

[98Camarod]

I don't know what it was for.

Can you see the coolant dripping? Does it smoke white? Does it overheat at idle or while moving? Do you have coolant on the passenger side floorboard, if so get a new heater core.

[saclifford]

I don't know what it was for.

Can you see the coolant dripping? Does it smoke white? Does it overheat at idle or while moving? Do you have coolant on the passenger side floorboard, if so get a new heater core.

no coolant dripping. even tried the dye to see if it was going anywhere I couldn't see.

no white smoke at all that I have seen from driving and getting on it or free rev in the yard cant even smell it from the exhaust

driver side floor stays dry.

it will overheat while driving and idle but only when it has lost all of the water which I think its all getting pushed to the overflow and then out of that. Its not getting pulled back in for some reason

[Carlrx7]

Air is stuck in the system.

[BigdaddyDupree]

It's either gotta be air getting in the system but that even generally will work itself out. Have you tried pressure testing the system?

[98Camarod]

no coolant dripping. even tried the dye to see if it was going anywhere I couldn't see.

no white smoke at all that I have seen from driving and getting on it or free rev in the yard cant even smell it from the exhaust

driver side floor stays dry.

it will overheat while driving and idle but only when it has lost all of the water which I think its all getting pushed to the overflow and then out of that. Its not getting pulled back in for some reason

What about the passenger side floor board?

[saclifford]

Im sorry I meant to say the passenger side stays dry


I did pressure test the system. I got the pressure up to about 18psi and let it sit for about a hour and the pressure went up. Probably because it was hot that day, car was cold though sat overnight before I did the test.

[BigdaddyDupree]

Pressure shouldn't go up from sitting I wouldn't think. That's odd

[schardbody]

So how long does it take to start overheating if fulll?

Is it pushing coolant then overheating or overheating causing it to push?

Lower hose could be collapsing aswell.

[saclifford]

Pressure shouldn't go up from sitting I wouldn't think. That's odd

I thought so to but figured maybe the heat of the day with it sitting in the sun may have done it. That was the only thing I could come up with talking to other people about it.

[saclifford]

So how long does it take to start overheating if fulll?

Is it pushing coolant then overheating or overheating causing it to push?

Lower hose could be collapsing aswell.


That is the million dollar question right there. I cant tell if its pushing the water out causing it to over heat or overheating then pushing the water out. If I leave the car unchecked it will take about aweek of back and forth to work, 40 miles round trip or a trip to Columbia and back to summerville. I have replaced the hoses and have also checked them while the car has been running. Both upper and lower seem pretty firm

[saclifford]

So I am going to throw this out there because I have no idea on whats going on and im just guessing at this point. On f-body cars there is a black air dam that directs air up to the radiator. Mine is in place and looks good. But the front bumper cover also rolls up under the car, almost making like a v shape with the radiator. If half of the front bumper cover is missing under the car does anyone think that might cause not enough of air getting through the radiator?

I hope I explained it well enough. I can try and take a picture and post it if needed

[04ctd]

the lower air dam makes the car a "bottom feeder"

air piles up in front of the air dam (high pressure area)
in front of the radiator

and air is pulled thru and out of the back of the radiator because the area behind the air dam/radiator is a low pressure area.

HTH.


here's the bajillion dollar question: what is that folded under part, doing at speed, with the wind pushing on it? it could be blocking air flow, but hard to say.

[saclifford]

the lower air dam makes the car a "bottom feeder"

air piles up in front of the air dam (high pressure area)
in front of the radiator

and air is pulled thru and out of the back of the radiator because the area behind the air dam/radiator is a low pressure area.

HTH.


here's the bajillion dollar question: what is that folded under part, doing at speed, with the wind pushing on it? it could be blocking air flow, but hard to say.



the whole bumper is supposed to be bolted in place so it doesn't move at all. the part that is still there is bolted up but there is a part missing I was thinking that it might be messing with the air flow. It was a long shot but I had to ask since I'm at a loss on what is going on with this.

[Rob M]

Shawn, here's something worth trying to narrow things down...start the car up, let it idle in the driveway WITH the heat on full blast. This in theory Should allow the car to run a hair cooler (prob not noticeable on the temp gauge but with a fluke/Multi meter etc) I wonder if the block or heads have a blockage that's creating a hot spot somewhere...

[saclifford]

Shawn, here's something worth trying to narrow things down...start the car up, let it idle in the driveway WITH the heat on full blast. This in theory Should allow the car to run a hair cooler (prob not noticeable on the temp gauge but with a fluke/Multi meter etc) I wonder if the block or heads have a blockage that's creating a hot spot somewhere...

I was thinking the same thing that's why I did a flush and was going to pull the two plugs. One behind the alt. and the other was by the starter. Im not sure if that would tell me if there is a blockage but it was worth a shot. Do you have any other suggestions on how to tell if there is a blockage?

I was talking to someone today and they made the comment that with the head gasket being an multilayer it could have a small leak in between the layers. Does anyone have any thoughts on that or may have experience it there self?

[04ctd]

I have two heat guns, one "pinpoint" with a laser on it,
and the HVAC style, that registers in a general area (no laser)

LMK if you wanna stop by & run them over the system/hoses/heads, IDK?

[saclifford]

[QappreciateE=04ctd;254902]I have two heat guns, one "pinpoint" with a laser on it,
and the HVAC style, that registers in a general area (no laser)

LMK if you wanna stop by & run them over the system/hoses/heads, IDK?[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the offer. Hopefully I will have a day here soon we can do that. Right now I have the car on jack stands from flushing the system again and haven't had much time to work on it because of work. I was hopping to take it for a ride tonight after work or tomorrow if im not working
.