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View Full Version : 4L60 help needed


Red99T/A
03-21-2010, 07:54 PM
Well after having some shifts feel real lazy at the track yesterday and finding trans fluid all along the bottom of my car I will be getting the T/A up in the air for some maintenance. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what trans fluid to use or any tips of things to look for? This will be my first time messing with my transmission. Thanks in advance!

04ctd
03-21-2010, 08:02 PM
PM Robert, MonteC on the board,

itSSlowZ28
03-21-2010, 09:43 PM
i have a performabuilt level 2 in my car. from what i've always been told, and what performabuilt recommends, regular non-synthetic atf is the best to run in it. i've also heard if its slipping the old atf has a tendancy to hold it together. don't know how true that is. but if i was you i'd be saving for a new trans and convertor

BigdaddyDupree
03-21-2010, 09:48 PM
hes making alot of power i knew that tranny wouldnt last long

gearmesh, inc.
03-21-2010, 10:18 PM
Regular Dexron III will be fine in your application. When you get your pan off, look to see if there is a dark looking "mud" covering the bottom. If so, your 3-4 clutches have probably seen better days. This is usually the first friction element to bite the dust when you feed a lot of power to a stock internal 4L60E.

Give myself or MonteC a pm if your trans service doesn't solve your problem. Both of us see each other regularly and we both know how to keep a 4L60E alive with a lot of power. I personally have a couple of my customers putting about 700 horsepower through their 4L60Es and surviving as daily drivers. It's all about good parts and attention to detail while building the unit on the bench.

Red99T/A
03-22-2010, 08:08 AM
The line about me putting alot of power through it was a joke, my car is pretty much bone stock lol. Thanks for the advice guys! I'm going to try to get the car in the air this week and see how it looks, I think I just got the trans a little hot on my second pass (okay that what i'm hoping). Because it drove home from the track with no problems once it had cooled down.

Illusions
03-22-2010, 08:23 AM
My trans temps have been real good since MonteC (Rob) rebuilt it. It has also handled everything we have thrown at it so far. The only high temps is when we are blowing through the converter. but it recovers fast and drops back down to 170 deg. We'll fix that with a multi-disc here shortly. just have to figure our troubles out first.

Red99T/A
03-22-2010, 08:30 AM
Unfortunately I don't have a gauge for my trans temp yet, so I have no idea what its running. Thats another thing on my list of things to do.

04ctd
03-22-2010, 09:00 AM
. Both of us see each other regularly and we both know how to keep a 4L60E alive with a lot of power.

Unfortunately I don't have a gauge for my trans temp yet, so I have no idea what its running. Thats another thing on my list of things to do.

Gearmesh, should i have a temp gauge on a TH400?

where would you put it?

Illusions
03-22-2010, 09:04 AM
mine's installed before the cooler inlet in a tee with the trans fluid flowing out the branch connection to the cooler and the sensor in the straight flow so the sensor read fluid directly on it. it's installed how we install temp elements in piping systems in the industrial plants. it's more accurate with flow hitting the element.

Harry
03-22-2010, 09:18 AM
I had an aod with a bung welded into the trans pan.

Red99T/A
03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
Would it be a good idea to go ahead and mount an additional trans cooler now when I do this maintenance? I was going to wait until I put my new stall in.

Illusions
03-22-2010, 09:49 AM
I had an aod with a bung welded into the trans pan.

That will work too. It's just cheaper if your installing a trans cooler and you do not have welding skills. you can just place it inline but you have to make sure you know the flow direction or your reading it after the cooler. which is not accurate.

Harry
03-22-2010, 09:51 AM
You need to seperate the trans from the radiator.

Illusions
03-22-2010, 11:01 AM
I run a over sized trans-cooler for an RV. First Mod I do to any of vehicles is install a trans-cooler. after the brutal summers along the gulf coast in Alabama you learn fast to separate the trans fluid from the heat of the radiator. Next will be it's own fan

Red99T/A
03-22-2010, 11:12 AM
true, but my car does have a trans cooler from the factory.

itSSlowZ28
03-22-2010, 03:06 PM
true, but my car does have a trans cooler from the factory.

built into the radiator yes. but if the radiator gets hot from the engine temp then where do you think it transfers the heat?

a cooler is definately a good idea. mine is mounted in front of the radiator and i bypassed the factory cooler for the reason i just mentioned

soccerspike15
03-22-2010, 03:37 PM
mines mounted on the condenser so it cools my ac faster too lol

LXtasy
03-22-2010, 04:49 PM
mines mounted on the condenser so it cools my ac faster too lol

Shut the f up. This isn't ls1tech where people actually listen to you

04ctd
03-22-2010, 08:51 PM
i got a free one out back, if someone wants it

about the size of a sheet of paper, single pass.
pretty nasty looking, but price is right...was on car when i got it.

i got one out of a F-150 at LKQ, it has threaded fittings, and mounting tabs on top & bottom, so i could do it without having to weld.

which is the OUT line on my TH400?

gearmesh, inc.
03-22-2010, 09:50 PM
i got a free one out back, if someone wants it

about the size of a sheet of paper, single pass.
pretty nasty looking, but price is right...was on car when i got it.

i got one out of a F-150 at LKQ, it has threaded fittings, and mounting tabs on top & bottom, so i could do it without having to weld.

which is the OUT line on my TH400?

Your out to the cooler port is the bottom one on your 400. The return to trans is the top one. A bung in your pan is fine for taking trans fluid temp. The pan is where the front pump gets its supply from to feed to all the clutch packs. The fluid that leaves the converter goes straight to the cooler to be cooled before returning to the trans to supply the lube circuits. The lube fluid that spills out the bushings and bearings just drains back to the pan.

The temp taken in the pan will be more representative of what your clutch packs see. Loose stall converters when stalled excessively can can heat up the fluid departing the converter pretty good. The fluid in the pan will be cooler than that in this situation. On a lockup converter while cruising in lockup, there is no converter slip to make heat, so your pan temp will be a little warmer than cooler out temp in this situation.

MonteC
03-22-2010, 10:30 PM
Just my opinion, take it for what its worth. I like to install trans fluid temp sensors in the cooler supply line. My reasoning is that this spot will have the hottest the fluid will get. Unless the transmission is having an internal meltdown usually caused by a plugged cooler. Placing the sensor in the cooler lines with give you an exact and "at the moment" reading, and if you study the temperature trend you will be able to know where your transmission is supposed to run and what is normal and what is abnormal.
But if the fluid in the pan is getting super heated by the lack of lube in the gear set, then the transmission should already be showing obvious signs of failure, and by the time the gauge is high enough to warrant a shut down the damage is already done.

The other place i also like is the cooler return line. Your cooler will only cool a certain amount of degrees. For example your transmission runs 230 before the cooler and 180 after thats 50 degrees. So if your before cooler temp climbs to 270 then your after cooler temp will be around 220. If you have been studying the temperature trends then you would know that something is wrong. You will also know how hot the fluid is when it enters the lube circuit. Yes the fluid will heat up one in the lube circuit, part of its job is to absorb the heat from the moving parts. But if everything is working correctly it wont heat up nearly as high as the post converter temps. And like i said before if you have a pan temp sensor, the damage to the unit will already be done before the gauge is high enough to really warn you. I would like to know if the temp is abnormal BEFORE it goes into the lube circuit so i can take the appropriate actions before critical damage is done.

If you're really feeling froggy, install two gauges. One on the supply and one on the return so you can see how well your cooler is working, and if the cooler is adequate for your application.

Gerald you know i value your opinion very highly, im not attacking or arguing with your post. I am just posting my thoughts on the subject. If you see any flaws in my logic please point them out, i will forever be a student in this field.

1 Slow Z
03-22-2010, 10:54 PM
mines mounted on the condenser so it cools my ac faster too lol

Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

clubracergt1
03-23-2010, 06:12 AM
Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Looking at who posted the comment in question, I have to ask-That surprises you?

Red99T/A
03-23-2010, 08:14 AM
Is there anything or anywhere in particular I should be looking for problems? Are the 4L60s prone to leaking from certain places or anything?

soccerspike15
03-23-2010, 08:49 AM
Looking at who posted the comment in question, I have to ask-That surprises you?

:hail:

98Camarod
03-23-2010, 08:56 AM
Is there anything or anywhere in particular I should be looking for problems? Are the 4L60s prone to leaking from certain places or anything?

A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

Red99T/A
03-23-2010, 09:06 AM
A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

lol Thanks Mr. Obvious, you're a life-saver.

gearmesh, inc.
03-23-2010, 09:43 PM
Gerald you know i value your opinion very highly, im not attacking or arguing with your post. I am just posting my thoughts on the subject. If you see any flaws in my logic please point them out, i will forever be a student in this field.

No offense taken at all, Rob. None of us ever really stop learning something as long as we wake up with a heartbeat and see the sun every morning.

As far as the transmission industry as a whole is concerned, I don't think the engineers can even come up with an "official" place to take a temp reading. Of course, when these engineers are doing their simulated 100k mile R&D testing, they have multiple temp gauges just about everywhere. From this, they know for sure what external coolers in oem applications can do, but only at stock horsepower levels. We as hot rodders end up doing our own engineering beyond that in order to keep our machines alive at elevated horsepower levels.

Most people that take up the task of installing a temp gauge on their transmission usually only intend on one gauge with one sample point. Personally, in my own opinion, I tend to favor the pan for a sample point. Sure, you won't be able to see how much heat your converter puts in the fluid when stalled up, but the pan will be more of an average reading across all operating conditions. All electronic operated transmissions that I know of that have temp sensors have the sensor somewhere on the valve body, which is submerged down in the pan. I don't know if this is the intended strategy of theirs, or just simply a low cost mass produced way of doing things.

When you are cruising down the interstate in lockup, the cooler out line is pretty much the same temp as what is in the pan. During lockup in overdrive, the biggest heat maker is the planetary that is making the overdrive ratio. The fluid that passes through the planetary to lube it just drains back to the pan. When out of lockup during city driving and racing at the track, the biggest heat maker is the converter due to the fluid shear inside of it while the converter is unlocked and multiplying torque. This fluid gets cooled down in the cooler before returning back to the lube circuits of the trans.

For those of you that have high stall converters and bracket race, you may prefer to monitor your temps on the cooler out line. Consistency can suffer when you are already staged and stalled up for an extended period while waiting for the bonehead in the other lane to finally learn how to stage his car. The hotter the fluid gets, the thinner its viscosity, resulting in a "looser" converter when at high temperature.

As for the temp in the return cooler line, this temp will be just a tad cooler than what is in your pan. The pan gets to see the temperature rise from planetary use in overdrive. If you don't have an overdrive trans, the cooler return temp will be pretty much what your pan temp is.

The location you take a temp just boils down to personal preference. Do you want to see the hottest your fluid ever gets in the converter, or are you satisfied with an average reading in the pan? Or how efficient your cooler is? The choice is yours. Ease of installation is also a consideration, as some hot rodders don't feel comfortable with striking an arc to weld a bung in their pan.

98Camarod
03-24-2010, 08:45 AM
A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge when it comes to transmissions:mrgreen: Another thing that I do know is if the front of the converter has discoloration, the converter is done. You're not going to be able to see anything without actually taking it apart, but you may see metal built up on the magnet or fragments in your filter.

gearmesh, inc.
03-24-2010, 11:58 PM
Another thing that I do know is if the front of the converter has discoloration, the converter is done. You're not going to be able to see anything without actually taking it apart, but you may see metal built up on the magnet or fragments in your filter.


When the front of the torque converter is blue, it is a sure sign that the lockup clutch that seats itself against the inside of the front cover has been slipping a lot. Get steel hot enough, and it turns blue. $$$$$$$$$

MonteC
03-26-2010, 10:58 PM
No offense taken at all, Rob. None of us ever really stop learning something as long as we wake up with a heartbeat and see the sun every morning.

As far as the transmission industry as a whole is concerned, I don't think the engineers can even come up with an "official" place to take a temp reading. Of course, when these engineers are doing their simulated 100k mile R&D testing, they have multiple temp gauges just about everywhere. From this, they know for sure what external coolers in oem applications can do, but only at stock horsepower levels. We as hot rodders end up doing our own engineering beyond that in order to keep our machines alive at elevated horsepower levels.

Most people that take up the task of installing a temp gauge on their transmission usually only intend on one gauge with one sample point. Personally, in my own opinion, I tend to favor the pan for a sample point. Sure, you won't be able to see how much heat your converter puts in the fluid when stalled up, but the pan will be more of an average reading across all operating conditions. All electronic operated transmissions that I know of that have temp sensors have the sensor somewhere on the valve body, which is submerged down in the pan. I don't know if this is the intended strategy of theirs, or just simply a low cost mass produced way of doing things.

When you are cruising down the interstate in lockup, the cooler out line is pretty much the same temp as what is in the pan. During lockup in overdrive, the biggest heat maker is the planetary that is making the overdrive ratio. The fluid that passes through the planetary to lube it just drains back to the pan. When out of lockup during city driving and racing at the track, the biggest heat maker is the converter due to the fluid shear inside of it while the converter is unlocked and multiplying torque. This fluid gets cooled down in the cooler before returning back to the lube circuits of the trans.

For those of you that have high stall converters and bracket race, you may prefer to monitor your temps on the cooler out line. Consistency can suffer when you are already staged and stalled up for an extended period while waiting for the bonehead in the other lane to finally learn how to stage his car. The hotter the fluid gets, the thinner its viscosity, resulting in a "looser" converter when at high temperature.

As for the temp in the return cooler line, this temp will be just a tad cooler than what is in your pan. The pan gets to see the temperature rise from planetary use in overdrive. If you don't have an overdrive trans, the cooler return temp will be pretty much what your pan temp is.

The location you take a temp just boils down to personal preference. Do you want to see the hottest your fluid ever gets in the converter, or are you satisfied with an average reading in the pan? Or how efficient your cooler is? The choice is yours. Ease of installation is also a consideration, as some hot rodders don't feel comfortable with striking an arc to weld a bung in their pan.

Duly noted. :bigthumb: