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View Full Version : Carb/Nitrous guys come on in!


ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 11:44 AM
So my Holley blue fuel pump is failing on me (bad brushes worn commutator) and I need to replace it. The blue has always been sufficient up till now at keeping the carb fed with fuel. My question is will a Holley Black keep me fed with the new 331 I'm building? The plan is to ditch the super powershot NOS system I have now and get a big shot and shoot 200 through a progressive controller eventually. Will the black supply the fuel? I have -8 lines from the pickup to the regulator and -6 from the reg. to the carb. Thanks in advance.

WWhittle
08-21-2011, 11:58 AM
I would run either a bigger pump or two pumps

cliff-1972
08-21-2011, 12:08 PM
You can always up the pressure on a blue pump with a spring kit if the pressure is what is falling off.I have Aeromotive A1000 just sitting on the shelf that has -10's in/out.It needs to be sent to Aeromotive to be freshened up.Other than that it is fine.

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 12:08 PM
I would run either a bigger pump or two pumps

What are you running?

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 12:10 PM
You can always up the pressure on a blue pump with a spring kit if the pressure is what is falling off.I have Aeromotive A1000 just sitting on the shelf that has -10's in/out.It needs to be sent to Aeromotive to be freshened up.Other than that it is fine.

Yeah I never ever lose pressure at WOT. Its now just a matter of the pump not starting if I shut it off, and having to rap on it to get it started or take it apart and spin the shaft manually and itll go.

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 12:12 PM
I currently run a 6.5 lbs of pressure.

Bradleyrj
08-21-2011, 12:13 PM
New black for the regular fuel system and a small fuel cell and Blue for the nitrous supply. I never believe in pulling nitrous fuel supply off of the normal system. Just my opinion.

1998ta__1991rs
08-21-2011, 12:14 PM
are you running a standalone cell for the nitrous? with a bigger shot it would probably be a good idea, always a good idea to flow it every time you go to the track

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 12:20 PM
are you running a standalone cell for the nitrous? with a bigger shot it would probably be a good idea, always a good idea to flow it every time you go to the track

New black for the regular fuel system and a small fuel cell and Blue for the nitrous supply. I never believe in pulling nitrous fuel supply off of the normal system. Just my opinion.

You may be right. What worries me is when guys run one grade of fuel for the carb and a higher grade for the nitrous sys. Seems sketchy to me, I'd be worried about the lower grade fuel detonating??

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 12:21 PM
More money More money lol

05Saleen
08-21-2011, 12:48 PM
I alway's ran a Holley Black with nitrous on my big block. Never had a problem running a 275 shot.

bwelch
08-21-2011, 01:02 PM
rebuild the blue for the motor. Its like $15 for a rebuild kit. You can get a jegs brand black pump"holley black" for $97. Jegs has a 1 gallon cell for $120.

WWhittle
08-21-2011, 01:30 PM
What are you running?

One pump, fuel log with separate regs.

Bradleyrj
08-21-2011, 02:44 PM
You may be right. What worries me is when guys run one grade of fuel for the carb and a higher grade for the nitrous sys. Seems sketchy to me, I'd be worried about the lower grade fuel detonating??

Just run 93 in the car tank and you'll be fine.

WWhittle
08-21-2011, 03:16 PM
New black for the regular fuel system and a small fuel cell and Blue for the nitrous supply. I never believe in pulling nitrous fuel supply off of the normal system. Just my opinion.

Why?

BigdaddyDupree
08-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Just run 93 in the car tank and you'll be fine.

You ever had anything with nitrous?

Kwiksilver
08-21-2011, 03:42 PM
here we go...

WWhittle
08-21-2011, 03:45 PM
I think the separate pump, seperate tank deal is more for street cars with stock in tank pumps, stock everything else- mainly efi cars with multiple tunes. Even then, I don't care for it. All Shawn needs is a good pump and a couple $30 Holley regs.

WWhittle
08-21-2011, 03:49 PM
If 900" motors with 5 systems can run off one pump and one log, I have a feeling Shawn would be fine.

1iron
08-21-2011, 03:53 PM
I think the separate pump, seperate tank deal is more for street cars with stock in tank pumps, stock everything else- mainly efi cars with multiple tunes. Even then, I don't care for it. All Shawn needs is a good pump and a couple $30 Holley regs.

^^^^^^See there. Skreet car. Running a plate kit on EFI fuel pressure is PITA. Been there done that.

Bradleyrj
08-21-2011, 06:34 PM
Just dont like it. Rather keep them seperate. Like food on a plate, it should never touch. Im just picky like that.

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 06:46 PM
One pump, fuel log with separate regs.

What are you calling a "fuel log"? I have a log style filter is that what you mean? I currently have two of the holley regs on the car.....One runs the the carb and the first stage and the other is for the second stage. I wanna lose the second stage anyway so should I use one reg for the carb and the other reg for the single stage when I change to the big shot?

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 06:48 PM
I alway's ran a Holley Black with nitrous on my big block. Never had a problem running a 275 shot.

Oughta work for me then! :bigthumb:

LXtasy
08-21-2011, 06:49 PM
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4623&stc=1&d=1269529748


http://www.dragzine.com/news/new-products/new-stackable-nitrous-regulators-from-aeromotive/

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 06:53 PM
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4623&stc=1&d=1269529748


http://www.dragzine.com/news/new-products/new-stackable-nitrous-regulators-from-aeromotive/

That looks like something off Zac's car. Outa my league lol.

LXtasy
08-21-2011, 06:57 PM
read the article. I believe that is what wes is talking about

bwelch
08-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Oughta work for me then! :bigthumb:

Ask him how fast he was going....Unless your gonna buy a high dollar single pump like Wes is talking about then just do what I recommended its cheaper. With a front mount cell you can run race gas in it and 93 in the tank. It makes it not quite so timing sensetive.

ShawnBoyMoody
08-21-2011, 07:03 PM
Ask him how fast he was going....Unless your gonna buy a high dollar single pump like Wes is talking about then just do what I recommended its cheaper. With a front mount cell you can run race gas in it and 93 in the tank. It makes it not quite so timing sensetive.

Not trying to be a pain I just dont like the front mounted fuel cell idea. When I saw that on Brandons car I cringed. I can just see him hitting the wall and that fuel cell rupturing......instant fireball. Scares me having a gallon of fuel 6 inches from the header.

bwelch
08-21-2011, 07:07 PM
Not trying to be a pain I just dont like the front mounted fuel cell idea. When I saw that on Brandons car I cringed. I can just see him hitting the wall and that fuel cell rupturing......instant fireball. Scares me having a gallon of fuel 6 inches from the header.

Be prepared to spends some money then. Plenty of people run that setup.

BAD BOB
08-21-2011, 07:29 PM
id run a a2000. would be plenty for that built motor. my dad has one that is basically brand new that he may get rid of.

mark king
08-21-2011, 10:24 PM
Not trying to be a pain I just dont like the front mounted fuel cell idea. When I saw that on Brandons car I cringed. I can just see him hitting the wall and that fuel cell rupturing......instant fireball. Scares me having a gallon of fuel 6 inches from the header.

bg 400 for motor and a fogger and a plate and never had any problems.it run 490 with that .small block..

Chillerman
08-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Ask him how fast he was going....Unless your gonna buy a high dollar single pump like Wes is talking about then just do what I recommended its cheaper. With a front mount cell you can run race gas in it and 93 in the tank. It makes it not quite so timing sensetive.

Why would you want to run two different grades of fuel? The engine has to burn whatever you stuff down it's throat anyways. Just does not make sense. Run one type of fuel or the other.

Shawn, One pump and multiple regulators will work just like Wes said. You can always get rid of your stock tank and replace it with a fuel cell (hence weight savings) say like an 8 or 12 gallon cell. They come with more than one fuel feed so you can run two fuel pumps. I run two pumps because I was getting some pressure creep on the fuel regulator feeding the nitrous sytem. I had a hard time keeping the pressure consistant. I've got a holley blue for the nitrous and a magnafuel quick star 300 for the carb. So far no pressure creep, and works like a charm.

WWhittle
08-23-2011, 11:57 PM
Whatever you do, please do not mix fuels. That might work fine for some street style setups but would be highly unadvisable for your setup. You can never get a tune right if your fuel type/mixture is inconsistent. That is a bad idea for so many reasons but I'm not going to get into it all, just don't do it....

I would run one big, good pump. When in doubt, look at a pro mod, lol. They run one pump.

The holly regs are perfect. They have been proven (datalogged) to hold pressure steadier than other nitrous side regs. Again, look what comes on a $100k nitrous pro mod motors from Fulton- holley's.

Do not mix your fuels!!! That is retarded!!!

slowgreen99
08-24-2011, 12:35 AM
Mixing fuels may not be the best route, but it's working for me and fits my budget. Yes, before its said "itll be cheaper than rebuilding the motor", I know this, but knock on wood, it's working so far. And the way my cell is mounted would take a side impact to rupture it, much safer than these....

and theyre are THOUSANDS of guys running their cells this way...
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272093&highlight=front+mount+fuel+cell

bwelch
08-24-2011, 01:58 AM
There are plenty of cars that run 93 in the stock tank and race gas in the nitrous cell. Most of them are street cars and some of them are in the mid 5's. I can think of about 5 cars that I personally know that run that setup and they haven't had an issue yet. Once you get the tune up right I dont see how the mixture would change. Your always running 93 through the carb and when the nitrous hits its 112 through the plate.

Thats what we run in brandon's car and we have the tune up spot on. We haven't had any nitrous back fires, burnt plugs, or anything. Hell marcus even hit the rev limiter when the driveshaft spit out and the nitrous was on.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 08:16 AM
How do you know the tune is spot on when y'all have never shut the car off and pulled it back to check plugs? Y'all have no idea what your tune really is.

And 93 changes from pump to pump and brand to brand by the way.

I have told Brandon 100 times what to do to make sure he's good. Ya'll may even be leaving something on the table and not know it.

1998ta__1991rs
08-24-2011, 08:29 AM
just run e85 in the tank and be done with it

BAD BOB
08-24-2011, 08:44 AM
just run e85 in the tank and be done with it

then you will need a pump big enough to bump a swimming pool

slowgreen99
08-24-2011, 11:49 AM
How do you know the tune is spot on when y'all have never shut the car off and pulled it back to check plugs? Y'all have no idea what your tune really is.

And 93 changes from pump to pump and brand to brand by the way.

I have told Brandon 100 times what to do to make sure he's good. Ya'll may even be leaving something on the table and not know it.

Yes we have pulled the car back a couple of times, and when the car broke, it was shut down and they looked good then too. The 93 is always from Hess lol, and the gas is the same brand. I want to get it to Tuten, but im poor.

1iron
08-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Yes we have pulled the car back a couple of times, and when the car broke, it was shut down and they looked good then too. The 93 is always from Hess lol, and the gas is the same brand. I want to get it to Tuten, but im poor.

Need to tune nitrous at the track. Shooting it on the dyno is not the same.

slowgreen99
08-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Need to tune nitrous at the track. Shooting it on the dyno is not the same.

I see. We have pulled it back a few times though. I may bring the fourwheeler if I can make it out this weekend.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 12:45 PM
Need to tune nitrous at the track. Shooting it on the dyno is not the same.

I agree but you can do 90% of your nitrous tuning on the Dyno and then the final 10% at the track. Especially if you use someone like Tuten who has a ton of Dyno AND track tuning experience. You should be able to come off the Dyno with a tune that's pretty damn close for the track and then just check some plugs after a couple 330's to confirm. It's a hell of a lot easier to do that then to go make pass after pass after pass after pass trying to get your tune right.


Of course that's JMHO.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 12:47 PM
I see. We have pulled it back a few times though. I may bring the fourwheeler if I can make it out this weekend.


Everytime I've asked you if you were shutting off and pulling back to check your plugs you told me no!

bwelch
08-24-2011, 01:10 PM
I have sat at the turn around at dorchester and swapped a couple plugs out so he could drive it back because we didn't have a 4wheeler. Everytime we pulled them they looked good. We dont shut it off every pass but once we know its good on that pill size and the weather we let it ride. 30 degrees of timing on a 150 and 28 degrees of timing on a 200. We even put a datalogging wide band it one weekend to see what the air fuel was on each pass.

bwelch
08-24-2011, 01:11 PM
Everytime I've asked you if you were shutting off and pulling back to check your plugs you told me no!

Brandon's grudge racing his tune up now!

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 01:36 PM
I have sat at the turn around at dorchester and swapped a couple plugs out so he could drive it back because we didn't have a 4wheeler. Everytime we pulled them they looked good. We dont shut it off every pass but once we know its good on that pill size and the weather we let it ride. 30 degrees of timing on a 150 and 28 degrees of timing on a 200. We even put a datalogging wide band it one weekend to see what the air fuel was on each pass.


What does your fuel ring look like and where is the timing mark?

bwelch
08-24-2011, 01:56 PM
The timing mark is in the middle of the ground strap and at the tip of the electrode. The fuel ring is a dark grey. It was a black at first cause the motor was running rich but we tuned it out. The fuel ring is down in the bottom not up top.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 02:04 PM
The timing mark is in the middle of the ground strap and at the tip of the electrode. The fuel ring is a dark grey. It was a black at first cause the motor was running rich but we tuned it out. The fuel ring is down in the bottom not up top.

Which cylider are you referring to?

bwelch
08-24-2011, 02:09 PM
The middle ones are typically a little richer than the end cyclinders. 2,3,6,7 look as I described but 1,4,5,8 are the same timing mark but are more of a medium grey fuel ring. Not light grey though. I know light grey is bad for the motor.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 02:39 PM
That's pretty cool that with a standard ignition box y'all have the timing marks all in the same place- never seen that before.
Not sure what you mean by the light grey deal.
Keep up the good work!

bwelch
08-24-2011, 02:50 PM
There aren't in the exact same spot but they are are from the middle to right before the bend. They are all within an 1/8" of each other and none of them have jumped to the threads instead of the ground strap. I talked to nitro dave some and he said that usually light grey can be a sign of pre detonation but I could have miss understood him. If you have any better info or if anything we are doing is wrong please help because we dont want to blow it up.

slowgreen99
08-24-2011, 02:58 PM
Debating on running a -10 plug on the corners. Heard that was a good/safe thing to do without a good box. Any truth to that Wes? And yea, we're no experts, but just looking at "how tos" on yb and such, it seems the plugs look pretty spot on.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 03:38 PM
Debating on running a -10 plug on the corners. Heard that was a good/safe thing to do without a good box. Any truth to that Wes? And yea, we're no experts, but just looking at "how tos" on yb and such, it seems the plugs look pretty spot on.

If the corners look hot then yes but based on what bwelch said it doesn't sound like you need them.

WWhittle
08-24-2011, 03:42 PM
There aren't in the exact same spot but they are are from the middle to right before the bend. They are all within an 1/8" of each other and none of them have jumped to the threads instead of the ground strap. I talked to nitro dave some and he said that usually light grey can be a sign of pre detonation but I could have miss understood him. If you have any better info or if anything we are doing is wrong please help because we dont want to blow it up.




I'm glad to help any time. I certainly don't know it all but I've learned plenty of shit the hard way and I'm half decent at tuning now. My car runs ok and I tune it myself now and have only burnt one piston. Lol.

bwelch
08-24-2011, 03:50 PM
We are about to pill it up to a 200. We had it in when it broke but it only went 40ft. Most of the stuff we read on YB said thats its not really needed on a small shot but once you get to the 200hp and up range then most guys are running 10's in the corners. We will find out this weekend if the weather holds out.

All the info I gave you was on a 125 and a 150

bwelch
08-24-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm glad to help any time. I certainly don't know it all but I've learned plenty of shit the hard way and I'm half decent at tuning now. My car runs ok and I tune it myself now and have only burnt one piston. Lol.

This is my first nitrous carb car that I have tuned. we have been pretty lucky with Brandon's car because we haven't really had to change much on the tune besides carb jetting. We were lost at first trying to get the tune right. We went all the way to a 96 in the carb and it was still a little lean.LOL. Come to find out the fuel filter was clogged up with some gunk.

I think with the bigger shot we are gonna have some work ahead of us. I will pm you if we need some help. Thanks

Chillerman
08-24-2011, 07:47 PM
Yall definitely have some work to do. I'm still trying to tune my nitrous woe's since I changed my plate.

You need to do some research on fuel (grades, octanes, etc.) and make sure your doing the right thing. I understand that race fuel ain't cheep, but neither is an overhaul if you grenade the motor. Wes knows what he's talking about when he says not to mix. Fuel density and burn/combustion rates are way different from one another. Any bonafied engine tuner like Tuten will tell you not to mix period.

Darryl Buckner
08-24-2011, 10:22 PM
Yea, thats a fact don't mix fuels. I always hated the holley regulators cause they always creaped on me on the pressure. I run the Aeromotive SS pumps on the blue car 1 fuel and 1 nitrous and it works fine and no fuel creep. I did it cause the price of 2 Aeromotive SS pumps and regulators was about the same price as a new A2000 pump alone. Now on the LTD I run a rebuild A2000 from Donnie's old motor set up, and an Aeromotive SS pump for nitrous. I realize the A2000 would run it all but old habits..

Matts94Z28
08-25-2011, 12:02 AM
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401685

WWhittle
08-25-2011, 09:12 AM
I will post a screenshot of my Racepak datalog later to show ya'll how steady those holley regs hold fuel pressure. Pretty cool stuff.

WWhittle
08-25-2011, 09:25 AM
Where it drops down is when the system comes on, and when it creeps back up is where the system is back off. As you can see, when the systems are on, it's rock steady. Any fluctuation you see there is a max of about .2 a pound.


http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g365/wwhittle1/RacepakScreenshot.png