LS 441/442ci N/A Questions

Miker · 10-03-2013, 08:59 PM

I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Planned parts

New LS7 block
RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc)
Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight?
Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods
Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons
LS7 head gasket
Lunati High RPM Lifters
ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster)
Fast 102
Nick Williams 102
Ported LSA Oil Pump

I need opinions on Valves and Springs.
Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do.
How much injector will I need?
I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option.

Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him.

4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox.

slowgreen99 · 10-03-2013, 09:10 PM

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowgreen99

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

I'd like to spend less on rockers then my car is worth.

The assembled price on the Mast isn't that bad.

Carlrx7 · 10-03-2013, 09:26 PM

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlrx7

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

I have all the oiling bugs worked from the front sump GTO pan. It is baffled and I run 7qts of oil. Since day one I have ran 0w-40 Mobil1. It is high zync with out any of the downfalls of racing oil. Currently it handles the heat fine; I don't have an oil cooler yet.

Car currently has a ported LSA pump in it. When I spun the lifter at 75k miles I put in high RPM lifters, a cam, patriot duals, ported the 243 heads, ARP rodbolts/headbolts. It has held together 25k miles so far spending a lot of time bouncing off the rev limiter at 7k.

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

I've wanted a big N/A build since I saw this car run at CMP.

Carlrx7 · 10-03-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlrx7

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

I like RPM; but it would be nice to have epic torque so I don't always have to rev the piss out of it. I currently always rev the piss out of it being a 4speed.

I need more power; the normal FI route would be totally wrong for what I do.

There is a crazy HSV GTO owned by Eddie Tassone (youtube it). He revs 8,000 on a 455ci LSX.

djfury05 · 10-03-2013, 10:01 PM

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfury05

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

That's what I want to hear.

What do people like crank/rod wise?

Motor stuff is not my thing so I need to hear this stuff.

While short stroke stuff is the norm for road racing stuff there are quite a bit of Camaro/Vette guys with a square setup. They normally rev to like 5,500 tho.

DIGGLER · 10-03-2013, 10:43 PM

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGGLER

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

If I purely wanted RPM that would work.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 11:21 PM

Lol at tags.

If bigger braked could fit you know I'd already have em. I have 1mm of clearance currently.

pontiac_boy · 10-03-2013, 11:58 PM

100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

bwelch · 10-04-2013, 02:35 AM

402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain...

GreebeanZ28 · 10-04-2013, 07:25 AM

402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80.

schardbody · 10-04-2013, 08:32 AM

Matt says lt1 swap will get ya done

RoadconeTuning · 10-04-2013, 08:33 AM

If you're stuck on the LS7 thing i'd say stock bottom end with a good piston on it. skip the fast102, I ran across a number of dyno sheets showing a stock LS7 intake making like 40tq more in the midrange and more power up top when i was looking for LS3vs102 comparisons.

If you're just wanting MOAR CUBEZ buy you an LS3 block and put some lightweight stuff in it and zing it 7500 with good lifters and lightweight rockers and all. Send Brian Tooley an email telling him what you want to do and he'll likely hook you up with a deal for a whole top end package. He'll probably steer you away from the LS3 and LS7 style heads.

-Disclaimer... I've never done any of that ish...

04ctd · 10-04-2013, 10:49 AM

Dee has his motor on a stand for sale.

his magnuson blower is on LS1 tech.

the Transzilla t56 is out & ready to sale

call him at 843-509-7209, he's off work today.

you can use my truck to go pick it all up.

http://www.carolinahorsepower.com/fo...ad.php?t=14278

bwelch · 10-04-2013, 11:05 AM

I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car...

DIGGLER · 10-04-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwelch

I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car...

why not, its already a 4,000lb car? lol

10-03-2013, 08:59 PM	#1
Miker Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Goose Creek, SC Posts: 811	LS 441/442ci N/A Questions I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it. Planned parts New LS7 block RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc) Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight? Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons LS7 head gasket Lunati High RPM Lifters ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster) Fast 102 Nick Williams 102 Ported LSA Oil Pump I need opinions on Valves and Springs. Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do. How much injector will I need? I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option. Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him. 4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox. __________________ 06 GTO-aro AutoXer Printing my car's CARFAX uses a lot of toner. Last edited by Miker; 10-03-2013 at 09:01 PM.

10-03-2013, 09:10 PM	#2
slowgreen99 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Summerville Posts: 7,740	Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts. __________________ M.R.E. Bad Bob Motorsports

10-03-2013, 09:26 PM	#4
Carlrx7 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ladson,SC Posts: 3,813	dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues. I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50. -Carl __________________ Dark Aladdin

10-03-2013, 10:01 PM	#8
djfury05 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Beaufort, SC Posts: 242	441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff. __________________ C6Z

10-03-2013, 11:21 PM	#12
Miker Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Goose Creek, SC Posts: 811	Lol at tags. If bigger braked could fit you know I'd already have em. I have 1mm of clearance currently. __________________ 06 GTO-aro AutoXer Printing my car's CARFAX uses a lot of toner.

10-03-2013, 10:43 PM	#10
DIGGLER Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,458	de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

10-03-2013, 11:58 PM	#13
pontiac_boy Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: North Charelston Posts: 333	100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

10-04-2013, 02:35 AM	#14
bwelch Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,774	402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain... __________________

10-04-2013, 07:25 AM	#15
GreebeanZ28 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Easley Posts: 2,300	402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80. __________________

10-04-2013, 08:32 AM	#16
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	Matt says lt1 swap will get ya done

10-04-2013, 08:33 AM	#17
RoadconeTuning Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Upstate, SC Posts: 2,684	If you're stuck on the LS7 thing i'd say stock bottom end with a good piston on it. skip the fast102, I ran across a number of dyno sheets showing a stock LS7 intake making like 40tq more in the midrange and more power up top when i was looking for LS3vs102 comparisons. If you're just wanting MOAR CUBEZ buy you an LS3 block and put some lightweight stuff in it and zing it 7500 with good lifters and lightweight rockers and all. Send Brian Tooley an email telling him what you want to do and he'll likely hook you up with a deal for a whole top end package. He'll probably steer you away from the LS3 and LS7 style heads. -Disclaimer... I've never done any of that ish... __________________ FIRSBIRZ Last edited by RoadconeTuning; 10-04-2013 at 09:16 AM.

10-04-2013, 10:49 AM	#18
04ctd Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ladson SC Posts: 4,388	Dee has his motor on a stand for sale. his magnuson blower is on LS1 tech. the Transzilla t56 is out & ready to sale call him at 843-509-7209, he's off work today. you can use my truck to go pick it all up. http://www.carolinahorsepower.com/fo...ad.php?t=14278 __________________ 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

10-04-2013, 11:05 AM	#19
bwelch Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,774	I doubt Miker wants to add weight to his car... __________________